RB: First thing—where did you grow up?

CH: I grew up in Alabama and Tennessee. I moved to Oregon when I was 20, so I've lived here for more than half my life now.

RB: How did you even hear about Portland?

CH: I did this student exchange program in college where you could go to another school and pay in-state tuition for up to a year. The idea was that you were supposed to go back to your home school afterward, but I stayed. I lived in Eugene for 11 years, then there was a five-year sojourn to New Mexico before I finally moved to Portland.

I worked at a women's health clinic, I was raising my kid and I thought I was going to go to nursing school. Then I had kind of an early midlife crisis and decided I didn't want to go to nursing school, so I opened a business instead.

RB: What was the business?

CH: Palace of Industry. It was half retail store, half bar and cafe.

RB: Whoa! Did you have experience running food stuff?

CH: I had worked food service and retail. I'd worked at Flutter as an employee, really part-time, for a couple of years.

RB: What year was this?

CH: 2010 was when Palace of Industry opened. I did it for two and a half years, and I really did not want to run a bar anymore. So Cindy, who originally opened Flutter, came to me and Sara and said, "I want to sell Flutter, but I only want to sell it to you guys. Do you want to buy it?"

The timing was perfect—I was selling Palace of Industry to some people who just wanted to run it as a bar. So Sara and I took over Flutter at the beginning of 2013.

RB: Crazy. And Flutter is coming up on its 20-year anniversary?

CH: Well, yes the shop will have been open for 20 years next spring. Sara and I have been running it together since 2013.

RB: Are you going to have a party?

CH: We're going to have a big party.

RB: What's your favorite thing about Flutter?

CH: I love making Flutter exist in the world. It's a mix of lots of things that we like- I love a shop that's not just one thing. The fact that it's new stuff and old stuff, clothes and home goods and books and paper goods and weird vintage things, all mixed together... I really love that. I want that to continue to exist. And people seem to love it too.

RB: What's your favorite part of being a small business owner?

CH: Just the autonomy and the flexibility. I love having time to do other things I want to do in my life. I like having time to do things like take care of my mom. I love having a business partner so I can take a vacation when I want to and know that things are in good hands.

RB: I know you've always been into vintage. Did that start in Alabama?

CH: Yeah. When I was 16 was when I started to stop trying to fit in with the preppy kids at my school. I started listening to '80s music and shopping at thrift stores and buying vintage. Back in the '80s, you could walk into the Rescue Mission thrift store and walk out with a garbage bag full of '30s and '40s vintage for $10.

RB: Amazing.

CH: It was phenomenal. So I've been loving and buying vintage forever. I mean, I never want to dress all in vintage, but I feel weird if I'm not wearing a piece of vintage somewhere. I always like to have something new and something old on at the same time.

RB: I think that's why you're one of the most fashionable people I know. You embrace vintage in a way that doesn't look "vintagey." You're not like a walking costume. The pieces you choose are modern in a way, with lots of linens and silks.

CH: Right.

RB: How would you describe your style? 

CH: I'm always drawn to pajamas or things that look like pajamas. I like lingerie-like clothes—vintage Edwardian nightgowns that you wear with a pair of pants or sneakers, or Oxford shoes. It's relaxed. It's always a little bit rumpled.

I'm always playing around with colors. Color math is a big thing for me—I'm really specific about colors and how they get put together. I've been really into texture lately. I'll put on an outfit and be like, "Oh, that's just too much, it's all one fabric." I need different textures. If there's too much cotton, I need to break it up with metal or leather or something shiny with something soft and patinated. If there's linen, I don't want to skew too far into "grandma at the beach"—it needs to get mixed up with something that's more modern or roughed up looking.

RB: It's funny, because you do choose these romantic pieces, like the nightgowns, but it's always utilitarian.

CH: Yeah. So I'm always playing around… if there's something sort of femme that I'm wearing, I'll pair it with sneakers or Oxfords or boots. I find that as I get older, I'm less into dresses than I used to be. Sometimes I put a dress on and I feel like I'm wearing drag. I don't know what that's about, but a lot of other people my age say the same thing.

Also, I just get interested in different things. I'm always interested in changing things and seeing how things look together, trying things in different ways. Your eye gets bored of things after a while.

RB: Do you have any famous people that you've been following forever?

CH: I think the most recent person I've been following is Rachel Tashjian, the fashion critic for The Washington Post. She's @prophet_pizza on Instagram, and she does that Opulent Tips newsletter. Her style is phenomenal, and she has great things to say about clothes.

There's an Instagram account that this British woman does called @misspeelpants, and she scans old '60s and '70s British fashion magazines. The photography in those is just stunning, so beautiful to look at. I've been following her for years. I don't necessarily dress like that, it's very all-vintage, but it's great to look at vintage magazine styling to pick up ideas for how to do things, even if you're not dressing in those particular clothes.

RB: But it kind of sparks an idea.

CH: Yeah.

RB: When you're looking for vintage, are you looking for brands?

CH: No, not at all. The patina of things. I'm a real textile nerd- the feel and look of a fabric and the patina of something is really important to me. I'm very into that. And I'm looking for colors. There are some colors that I just don't do, so that makes things easy. 

RB: Where do you do your shopping?

CH: It's almost 100% secondhand. So I shop Vein of Gold, Circle Round, Deep Lake, Give and Take, my own shop obviously—skimming off the top!

RB: Sure, of course, naturally.

CH: I have found some of my best shopping, both for myself and for the shop, in the last few years has been from other people who sell vintage. Like, somebody who has a stall at a vintage place—they'll have a big clear-out sale, and I'll go there.

Sometimes I feel like we all just need to start trading merchandise around. Like, "Here, this didn't work at my shop. You sell it at your shop." You and I have done that a little bit before, like, "Here, I couldn't sell this at Vein of Gold. You take it to Flutter," and somebody buys it.

RB: Yeah, exactly.

CH: So I feel sometimes like vintage is just making its way around town.

RB: As it should be. That's kind of the whole premise of resale and consignment—you're basically trying to give this piece a new audience, because it is a one-of-a-kind piece. So that makes sense.

CH: Yeah, like those Boy Scout pants that you have in here- I'm like, is that the exact pair I used to have? I used to have those exact pants. And I see things that I've sold here come back around, or I've seen them in other shops, because it's such a singular piece. You know that it was yours once.

RB: Here's another question: do you have any movies that you love for the styling or cinematography or wardrobe?

CH: Oh, anything with Tilda Swinton, of course. That's one of the iconic people, clothes-wise, style-wise. Don't we all just want to be her?

RB: Absolutely.

CH: She's been in a lot of movies that have great style, like A Bigger Splash. 

RB: One of my all time faves.

CH: I hate to say it, but the Woody Allen movies in the Diane Keaton era, those are all amazing. Oh, Diane Keaton and Warren Beatty made a movie called Reds in the '80s. It's phenomenal. It's based on John Reed and his wife Louise… I forget her last name. They were communists who went to Russia and were participating in the revolution. He was a journalist. It's like a three-hour drama, and it's so good.

RB: How about in music?

CH: I mean, you can't go wrong with the cover of Patti Smith's Horses.

RB: So classic.

CH: She's so amazing. I saw her perform at the Schnitz years ago—this was way before covid. She walked out on stage, and I started crying. Just spontaneously started crying. It was a few years after Just Kids had come out, and I just—she walked out on stage, and tears started falling down my face, and I was like, "You did it. You did it." Everything that she dreamed of in terms of who she wanted to be and how she wanted to be this artist for people, she did it. 

RB: And she's so herself.

CH: I don't know if there's a better word for this, but I was like, she's a shaman. I felt like she was channeling energy in this phenomenal way, like she was creating this ritual space for people.

RB: I feel tingly now…

CH: You do feel that too!

RB: … because when I saw her just a few years ago, you just felt like you're in the presence of something.

CH: Yes, absolutely. Her energy is massive.

RB: Okay, back to you. How do you get dressed?

CH: So I have a few things I've been saying for years. One is about when you're trying to decide whether you should buy something or not, or whether you're satisfied with your outfit. One of the questions is: How would you feel if you ran into your style icon on the street while you're wearing this? Or if you got introduced to, say, Tilda Swinton or Patti Smith or somebody—like you're sitting down to dinner with this person. Do you feel like you're wearing the outfit you want to wear when you run into that person?

RB: Yes! That's one.

CH: When trying to decide if you want to buy something or not, I used to say, "Would you take it to New York?" Although I think I was underwhelmed with the fashion last time I was in New York, maybe I was just in the wrong places. But now I'd probably say, "Would you take it to London? Would you wear that? Would this make the cut if you were packing to go someplace where you want to really look your best?"

RB: I think that's a great thing to say to people in Portland, because there's kind of this… we're so casual here, but there's a... what's the word? It's like ennui, or something like that. 

CH: Yeah it’s very casual.

RB: I mean, we know that because we work in this industry and we see lots of people, and I feel like there's a wanting for more. So, both of those are really good questions to ask yourself.

CH: Yeah. I really appreciate when I see people out and around in Portland who are dressed... I mean, I'm a casual dresser, but I so I appreciate it when people are doing something interesting, and when it's a little elevated and has a point of view and it's considered. That's thrilling to me.

RB: Totally. What would you like to see in Portland?

CH: I'd like to see people dress up more, whatever dressing up means to them. I would enjoy that. I'm very much into comfort, I don't want people to be uncomfortable when they're dressed up. I don't think that's necessary unless you're just into that. But I'd like to see more creativity and more elevation and point of view.

RB: I know they're just clothes. But we see it in here all the time, it can make you feel really good to look nice, even if it's just for yourself. At home. Like, "Oh yeah, I got new lounge pants, and I feel like a million dollars."

CH: Yeah. I got a nightgown from, what's it called… Salter House. It's fantastic. I feel great watching TV and drinking tea at night in that thing. I just feel glorious.

RB: So the name of the game is, just do it for yourself.

CH: Yeah. It's about pleasure.

RB: It's about pleasure.